Thread: Do Christians Cherry pick the Bible?

Originally Posted by Zerah

So it seems... unless you've studied the social sciences. Basic psychological theory of human development would be Freud's id, ego and super-ego. I remember a case study from one of my first year biological anthropology classes that involved a man who presented with severe bone degeneration similar to osteoarthritis and curvature of the spine - he lived well past what he was capable of in a nomadic group (as humans were at the time). There was evidence he was paraplegic and unable to contribute to the group, yet he lived to old age. It's considered evidence of altruism in early Homo sapiens when societal norms (sociology) were not as established. There are many more cases. Babies are not born with this instinct. Explain that.

According to the study I posted, babies may, in fact, be born with that very instinct.

Originally Posted by Zerah

Morality is not simply established through religion. There are complex cultural, social and biological systems at play, some of which humans might not have the ability to understand in the near future, if ever. Biologically speaking, there is strong evidence that individuals who lack "morality" and who would probably come to the conclusion killing "infidels" is right have decreased functioning in their frontal cortex specifically the orbitofrontal cortex, (evidence being brain scans of murderers, anti-social personalities, etc). I've read many scientific journals which give evidence this is genetic. Morality is not a simple philosophy to define or to prove and it's not as cut and dry a subject as your infidel hypothetical is trying to make it out to be.

Yes, there is evidence that psychopaths' brains may be different from those of normal people. As for the Muslim fanatic who wants to kill infidels, that's a different thing. Surely, not all of the jihadis are psychopaths, are they? Further, as Casandrabandra points out, the desire to kill "heretics, or gooks, or muslims, or ragheads, or Jews" isn't that much different.

Originally Posted by Dittohead not

Yes, there is evidence that psychopaths' brains may be different from those of normal people.

Sorry I haven't read this topic in a while, so I don't know exactly what is being discussed. Skimmed it and noticed this line. You'll learn this in any General Psychology class. The brain of a psychopath unquestionably is different than that of the average person. Murderers, rapists, etc. have extremely different brain structure and use. There is no "may" about it. That's a fact.

But that also doesn't mean murder can't be a learned moral. I think it was discussed in another topic. At least, in my idea of moral foundation, I think everyone is born with innate morals, any of which can be overwritten and others can be created through being taught otherwise. That is, for the average person. These murderers with abnormal brain patterns are of course going to have a harder time learning new morals, since their brain - unlike the average person - isn't necessarily designed to do so.

Originally Posted by Charles Stover

Sorry I haven't read this topic in a while, so I don't know exactly what is being discussed. Skimmed it and noticed this line. You'll learn this in any General Psychology class. The brain of a psychopath unquestionably is different than that of the average person. Murderers, rapists, etc. have extremely different brain structure and use. There is no "may" about it. That's a fact.

But that also doesn't mean murder can't be a learned moral. I think it was discussed in another topic. At least, in my idea of moral foundation, I think everyone is born with innate morals, any of which can be overwritten and others can be created through being taught otherwise. That is, for the average person. These murderers with abnormal brain patterns are of course going to have a harder time learning new morals, since their brain - unlike the average person - isn't necessarily designed to do so.

I think the point I've been making is the same point you just made.

Further, is it possible at all for a psychopath to learn morals?

Originally Posted by cassandrabandra

in fact, there is no evidence that suicide bombers ARE psychopaths ... it doesn't make sense that they would be. Despite the view of a lot of ill informed people that they blow themselves up so they can enter paradise and meet 72 virgins, most of them believe they are dying for a cause.. Robert Pape's "Dying to Win" takes an interesting look at what motivates suicide bombers ... and until recently .... its interesting to note .... the majority were not Muslims.

Really? Who were they?

Originally Posted by Dittohead not

Really? Who were they?

Hezbollah suicide bombers in the period 1982-1986 were 71% Communist/Socialist, 21% Islamist, 8% Christian (204-07).

Dying to Win: The Strategic Logic of Suicide Terrorism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Tamil Tigers were very well represented -

The LTTE have employed the use of concealed suicide vests.[93] According to Jane's Information Group, between 1980 and 2000, the LTTE carried out 168 suicide attacks causing heavy damage on economic and military targets.[94]
Many of these attacks have involved military objectives in the north and east of the country, although civilians have been targeted on numerous occasions, including during a high profile attack on Colombo's International Airport in 2001 that caused damage to several commercial airliners and military jets, and killed 16 people.[95] The LTTE was also responsible for a 1998 attack on the Buddhist shrine, and UNESCO world heritage site, Sri Dalada Maligawa in Kandy that killed 8 worshipers. The attack was symbolic in that the shrine, which houses a sacred tooth of the Buddha, is the holiest Buddhist shrine in Sri Lanka.[96] Other Buddhist shrines have been attacked, notably the Sambuddhaloka Temple in Colombo that killed 9 worshipers.[97]
Relatively speaking, there have been fewer operations in the south where most of the Sinhalese live, including the capital Colombo, although such attacks have often engaged high-profile targets and attracted much international publicity as a result.[98]
The LTTE's Black Tigers has been attributed with the assassination of Rajiv Gandhi, who was killed in 1991 using a prototype suicide vest, and Ranasinghe Premadasa, assassinated in 1993.[94]

Liberation Tigers of Tamil Eelam - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

this from the Pape article is also quite interesting:

There is no documented mental illness in any case of suicide terrorism, though there are 16 cases of personal trauma (e.g. the loss of a loved one) (210-11). Arab suicide terrorists are in general better educated than average and are from the working or middle classes (211-16). “[T]hey resemble the kind of politically conscious individuals who might join a grassroots movement more than they do wayward adolescents or religious fanatics” (216).

my understanding is that there have been other groups as well, including sikhs

The 1985 bombing of Air India Flight 182 off Ireland, the deadliest aircraft terror attack until the September 11, 2001 attacks, and the attempted bombing of Air India Flight 301, were alleged by the Canadian government to have been carried out by Sikh extremists. However, Inderjit Singh Reyat, of the ISYF, who was found guilty of manslaughter for making the bombs, is the only individual convicted in these attacks as of 2 May 2010. [52] [53] [54]

.... On 31 August 1995, Chief minister Beant Singh was killed by a suicide bomber.

Sikh extremism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

there have been others - you could define kamikaze and others as suicide bombers as well ... but one thing is clear - even in the middle east it didn't start off as an Islamic thing.

Originally Posted by cassandrabandra

Dying to Win: The Strategic Logic of Suicide Terrorism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Tamil Tigers were very well represented -

Liberation Tigers of Tamil Eelam - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

this from the Pape article is also quite interesting:



my understanding is that there have been other groups as well, including sikhs



Sikh extremism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

there have been others - you could define kamikaze and others as suicide bombers as well ... but one thing is clear - even in the middle east it didn't start off as an Islamic thing.

OK, so suicide bombing is nothing new, is it? The jihadis just adopted an idea that had already been tried.